#98 The Mental Game of Sex with Lawrence Lanoff

[Angel Donovan]: Lawrence, welcome to the show.

[Lawrence Lanoff]: Thank you, really great to be here.

[Angel Donovan]: Absolutely, absolutely. I'm very excited about talking to you because, I checked out one of your products and it was great. That was the full depth intro to your material.

[Lawrence Lanoff]: Thank you.

[Angel Donovan]: And, I was really impressed and I know that went quite well on its release as well. So, congratulations on that.

To kick off, I would like to first go over your background because, you have a pretty unusual background. I know a little bit of it. I probably don't know most of the details but, it's really kind of an eclectic mix of different things which have led to where you are today.

[Lawrence Lanoff]: Yeah, that is true.

[Angel Donovan]: How would you describe it? What's Lawrence Lanoff?

[Lawrence Lanoff]: It's a really interesting question because, outside of the scope of what we're going to be talking about today, I really have solved a massive human problem and it's the problem of meaning that people have. That sort of that spiritual quest that again, is kind of outside of our scope but, the reason I mention that is because, I was trying to figure out why me?

Like why is it that I'm looking at the world this way and why is, so far, am I the only person whose seemed to have solved what's going on here? At least that I'm aware, right? I mean, there could be somebody out there but, it just seems like there's so many layers of these things some of which we're going to talk about today, especially around sexuality.

But, one of the thing is that I grew up on the streets of New York and New York is dirty real gritty city and I moved here, I think we were here in this city like by the time I was about 4 1/2. So, I am through and through a New Yorker and those formative years of my life, being exposed to people, ideas, religions, the new age movement, vegetarianism, every fricking cult you can possibly imagine, nearly getting kidnapped on two different occasions that I'm aware of, almost getting killed by a crackhead, just as an example and plus dealing with a fair amount of both physical abuse, some sexual abuse and then, furthermore some like bullying and like crazy stuff, right?

That was really extreme at a time before there were safety nets. I had to find my way kind of parenting myself and in some ways probably the biggest struggle I have at this moment in my life is there are still these things, basic things that I just...because, I didn't have role models for, I just never learned.

So, it's kind of like you get raised by wolves and there's some things that you don't know about. So, I think that part of made...what makes me me is that I have just had a huge heaping tablespoon of reality. I think...so how when other people are getting cluttered with smoke and mirrors and fairy dust, that's not been me. Like, I've always seen beneath the surface and beneath the paint.

I think that that's, I mean...that's kind of maybe a slightly poetic explanation of why I'm me. I've always been a seeker. My life question has been why and I have always been...everything that I've thought has been met and tempered with reality because, if the city is anything it is reality.

[Angel Donovan]: Right, it pushes in your face. It sounds like you've lived these experiences which have forced you to look at reality rather than avoid it. Like many of us can avoid a lot of reality in our lives because, we're not forced to by the situations to really deal with them.

[Lawrence Lanoff]: That's exactly right because, you're not forced to, you can live in sort of a theoretical bubble. I spent some time in Sedona, Arizona and Sedona is a classic case of people, for example walking around the streets of Sedona, (I like to go hiking and stuff but, you know), you'll pass a stranger in Sedona and people are like nervous and scared and on guard and in some cases they drive around with guns and I'm like, "It's Sedona. It's Sedona. There's nothing happening."

It really shows me just how much our mental state and our belief systems affect everything especially sex. So, that's one of the reasons why I came to teach about sex. Well, there was something that you mentioned which was...you mentioned my background was in Playboy and as a director, I directed for like 12 years for Playboy.

One of the things that I noticed is that people have this super strong reaction. Like, a lot of guys would high-five me.

[Angel Donovan]: Uh, huh.

[Lawrence Lanoff]: And be like, "Goal! Touchdown!" You know and a lot of women would...

[Angel Donovan]: That's a lot of...I mean, 12 years is a long time. It's over a decade. That's career.

[Lawrence Lanoff]: Yeah, it was a career. I had a career there. I developed knowledge there that I still use to this day in terms of...I mean well, one thing for sure is just understanding the psychology of women who a) how beauty affects things, b) how the fantasy has nothing to do with the reality. Right?

So, there again is...I had a job that forced me to deal with reality and reality is so starkly different from all these kind of...I call them leprechaun unicorns which are the sort of the...they're relationship goblins that guys and girls have in their head about what they're looking for and it's nothing real, right? They like look at this maybe a playmates spread or see a video that I shot and they're like, "Oh, that's amazing."

But, I know that there was three hours of hair and makeup and two days of wardrobe fittings and who knows whatever else that goes into a shot and sometimes because that shot is only a 100th or a 1000th of a second but, we look at it as if it was an entire or an entire reality. That again is where we're living in this kind of weird bubble and that really messes people up a lot especially guys.

[Angel Donovan]: Absolutely and it's kind of a funny because, you yourself, you've been through situations which exposed you to a real life hard reality and then, you went on to create dreams...

[Lawrence Lanoff]: Yes absolutely.

[Angel Donovan]: ...certainly for men and it must have been a lot of fun also. What other things do you take away from that time in your life? Did you have any other realizations or any great experiences and things like that over that time?

[Lawrence Lanoff]: As far as great experience go let me tell you, the time I rolled into Hedonism with 12 basically playmate girls in toe to take over the Hedonism resort in Jamaica for, I think we there three weeks. You can do the math on that. I mean you know, there were some sublime experiences.

It just is...there was tremendous...I mean, the opportunity to step deeply into this psyche of people's vulnerability because, when you're naked in front of a camera regardless of your feeling, in order to do that, you have to face certain demons and certain fears. You just have to.

That's just....if you grow up in our culture and you're going to get naked...not so much now but, certainly when I was doing [inaudible]...now, the millennials, they don't really seem...it seems like a lot less concern about this stuff because basically, everybody's naked at this point on their phones and stuff.

But, that like public nudity is really intense and so there was a great deal of intimacy and vulnerability in sharing and honesty that had to develop certainly between me as a director and whoever I was shooting. So, there was some really, really, really powerful moments, you know?

[Angel Donovan]: Yeah, I guess guys will think about Hedonist, you know the experience you just described and that would be the highlight but, I'm sure like just being around that environment for 12 years. Like you said, seeing the girls when they arrive and they're tired in the mornings because, they haven't slept properly and stuff and then comparing it to how they look in three hours’ time.

That kind of must have given you a real grip on reality that a lot of us haven't had that ability to get that even myself. You know, I can't say that I've seen as much of as that as you. You've just like really seen it for 12 years all the time, right? So, that really sets your reality quite strongly.

[Lawrence Lanoff]: Yeah, I'm not going to lie though. I did have a problem switching to civilian for a while. Like from director, in which case, every drop is open, people are all, "Oh, you're directing. Okay." You just get to see things that other people just won't maybe ever see.

[Angel Donovan]: We also hear a lot in Los Angeles about how directors due to their statism, that gives them a lot of power when it comes to women. Is that something that you saw as well?

[Lawrence Lanoff]: Oh yeah for sure. I mean, I've always been...you know for whatever reason, I don't have a good reason, I just really value the level playing field. Really, for me that's super important because, I don't want to be in the role of teacher or whatever. So, leveraging power for sex...I mean, there is a triangle in Hollywood and the triangle is basically power, sex and money.

There are people who are powerful that don't have cash and aren't getting laid. There are people who the only thing they have is they've got sex. They've got their sexuality whatever they have there and they're trying to either get power, i.e. fame or cash.

So, there's this like pick any two or sometimes pick any one but, very seldom do people get all three simultaneously. It's such a delicate balance that I've known and if fact, I mean, I have stories about one of my girlfriends who was a playmate she went to a job and like a directing job with a like a real A-list at the time. Oh my God, the casting was just...it was unbelievable. It was horrifying.

Now, nobody knows these stories. Of course, I knew them because, she had the total space to come and tell me the truth about stuff that happened and yeah, it was pretty horrifying. That was one of a 100,000 stories in Hollywood.

There is this thing of like, "Hey, I've got this job. I've this thing. I've got this car. I've got stuff or power" that I try to leverage to sex. Of course, what ends up happening with that is I've also watched a lot of guys crash and burn their lives because, they would get caught up in that.

"I want the hotter girl, the next girl. I want more. I want not one playmate. I want three. I want" and I would watch these guys just go and just strive and throw me cash and stuff around and then, literally crash and burn. It was horrifying.

So, the only way you could...I could work at Playboy for so long so to just basically stay free of all of that because, if you get caught up in it...I would watch directors come in and do a show or two and then just get destroyed. Right because, maybe they would be like, "Oh, these are playmates and I'm the director and I've got some power here and I'm going to try and fuck them" and then, boom they're gone.

[Angel Donovan]: Right, they blow up their career or they just get too distracted, not focused on the ball. That happens a lot. What do yourself and other people you've seen that didn't get...succumbed to that, what do you think were the qualities? I mean, we're talking about a high quality problem, like a quality problem that most guys love to have.

But, I think you've got to keep this long-term mindset to these things and a balance and most guys who have been successful, me included. I went through that dark spot where that success in this area of my life was sabotaging the rest of my life. I mean, it took me a couple of years to figure it out and get out of there and I was really unhappy.

So, what have you seen in terms of qualities of people that have enabled them to survive that and get past it and make things work?

[Lawrence Lanoff]: Well, I can only speak for myself because, honestly, I have not watched...I don't think I've seen one other...Yeah, okay maybe one other guy survive it. So, I can only speak for myself and for me, the big key was you just have to have something that's more important than putting Point A inside of Slot B.

For better or worse, I always had kind of a "spiritual path." I put that in air quotes. You can't see that but, I'm putting it in air quotes because, I think that served me at the time to be looking for something more even though, I think I was just so...had so incorrectly. I mean, I know I had it incorrectly but, as a general idea or methodology having something that's...just having a bigger idea that you're striving towards other than Point A inside of Slot B which is appropriate for what we're talking about because, that's really one of the concepts that I just think is hugely important.

It's like, getting back to the movie thing, yes I would go direct movies but, I would also go and do meditation retreats and I did my yoga and I did things that I needed to do. Like for me, a good way to recover is to just go drive into the desert and be around nobody, just go camping in the desert and I have an off road vehicle and I'll go do that.

So, I think there are things which we always have to figure out what do you need to reset your central nervous system because, it's very easy to get caught in dopamine addiction where you're just going from one, "Oh I had this experience and now, I need a bigger experience and a bigger experience." But, I've also kind of been a scientist and been interested in these things. So, you can start to recognize.

You recognize the dopamine addiction. You can see it if you ever to Los Vegas and you watch people at the gambling tables or you watch them in front of the slot machines. That's dopamine, right, where it's like, "Oh, what's going to happen? What next?" Or if you've ever been to Mardi Gras or some huge thing like that where you're just like, "What's the next high? What's the next high?"

That's not sustainable over time and I think that was the big insight that I had is just, it's not sustainable. So, that always kept me kind of like humble plus, I had seen enough death and destruction growing up in the city you know and had friends who died and OD'd and all of that stuff.

It was not just a conceptual thing for me or like a presidential campaign, "Don't do drugs." You know, like I saw the effects of these things. They weren't just like concepts. I had emotional reference points for people who had gone too far and died as a result or who were completely dysfunctional.

So, I think that comes to...this circles back around our whole story about reality. Reality has always been the thing that has kept me personally in check and I don't know many people who are willing to deal with reality. It's like we all want these fairy tales and games but honestly, my life is so much more at peace and easeful by living in reality.

[Angel Donovan]: Yeah, yeah absolutely. I get where you're coming from and I think one of the harder things is the first part. It's the hardest right because, when you first start looking at reality, you've probably got some stuff you need to clear because you've been avoiding it for a while. So, it's probably that thing and if you leave it too long, it gets bigger. So, you want to avoid it more.

So, I guess that's...you're kind of lucky that early on in life you had to go through things and you had to face things early on. I guess that gave you that access to this. I think that something that helped me which is similar was seeing other people crash and burn around me in pretty extreme ways and that kind of woke me up a little bit as well. It gave me insights into why I was not satisfied.

I wasn't happy and I was like, "I should be happy. I'm not happy. I seem to be getting unhappier." Also, I've always felt life was really short. I don't know if you had...?

[Lawrence Lanoff]: Me too, Man. Oh absolutely. I had friends who were dead at 13. It was not like a concept like "life is short. I was like, "Fuck it ended short." I live that way today. I don't think I'm going to live forever and honestly, I think that's the only thing that's tempered in my life because, if I get too "dopamine crack head" about something, I kind of catch it. You just go like, "Wow, dude you're..."

[Angel Donovan]: We're wired that way.

[Lawrence Lanoff]: Of course we are. The only thing that can help us out of that is some kind of self-awareness. You have to develop some sort of...I mean, this is a catch phrase that's going around so I use it, again, in air quotes...but, you have to use a certain amount of "mindfulness" or "awareness" but, you have to be able to look and say, "Wow, I've been cracked out for three days."

[Angel Donovan]: Yeah, exactly.

[Lawrence Lanoff]: You know.

[Angel Donovan]: And it's sometimes like that and I don't know about you but, when I wake up...let's say I drop my meditation technique which really...that really helps to keep my grounded, I personally feel. Just looking at reality on a longer term. Like sometimes even I if I go past like a couple of days now...it used to be longer but, a couple of days, I'll realize I've been running around with no head basically. Like a headless chicken and I'll be like, "Damn. I've wasted two days."

That's why like I brought up the life is short because, I am really concerned that I like want to make the most out of life and when that happens I'm like, "Damn, that's kind of a bit of a waste of time there. Had a bit of fun but, I've done that all before." It gets old.

[Lawrence Lanoff]: Well, right and again that leads us back to our topic because, sex and dopamine basically, they go hand in hand and newness. Right, our desire for newness and difference and excitement and all of that stuff.

So, when it comes to sex and sexuality there are sort of these two channels and one is the dopamine channel and that's just higher, bigger, better. The weird thing about these two channels which is why you have to actively create balance is that if you're actively in a dopamine, the dopamine itself suppresses the other channels.

So, if you're in this like excitatory phase, it's suppressing your ability to regulate and that's just how the central system works. So, that's when you get into a meditative state, like everything gets more still and calm because, that's suppressing the dopamine-activated state.

So, this is the balance. This is where this weird balance where you know, we got to have newness and fun and excitement but, you also want to temper that or at least activate your parasympathetic nervous system and your ability to relax and of course, when it comes to sex and connecting and meeting and women in general, if your parasympathetic is activated, if you can be in your relaxation response, things are going to go exponentially better. Right, just in general.

[Angel Donovan]: Yeah, I'd like to take a step back here because I think that guys can already feel that you approach this subject quite differently to other people. So, how would you say you approach the whole sexuality, sex topic, having great sex? How do you approach this differently to other people in the typical authors who are the best sellers and stuff and other courses that you've seen? How would you say you're a bit different in your approach to this?

[Lawrence Lanoff]: Again tempered with reality, I think the big mistake that I see and having been around a lot of guys in this. Like, I have a lot of friends in the industry of teaching and coaching and all that stuff and they all seem to suffer from a similar and a lot of the guys who are being trained in that also suffer from that which is kind of...to the phraseology of "The Game"...the "The Game"...like if you play "The Game" the way it's taught, it can only lead you in a certain and specific direction.

So, if you think about what "The Game" is...let's just take the point of the book or any of this stuff it's...typically when I ask a guy, I'm like, "Well, tell me about what your current situation is. What's your current sex life like? Tell me what goes on in there." They're like, "Okay well, I met this girl, you know, blah blah blah."

It's the old, "I met somebody, I did the dance that I do, the lines that I do, the performance that I do, the thing that I do. I got Point A inside of Slot B and I won 'The Game'." That really is the big problem. So, what that does of course, is if you have to trick somebody or coerce them or do some stuff so that they ultimately kind of are relaxing to this...

Let's say made up character and then they open and then you have terrible sex with them or even mediocre or even Okay sex or even just whatever but, there's no substance behind that, it's not going to a woman that long to realize like, "Oh, you don't have anything else going on in your life. I don't know what this is but, I don't like it." Right so because, the point of "The Game" is "I put these cells inside of those cells. So, I won."

So, a lot of times when I start this process with my own private coaching and I've had some who have been in this field for a long time and studied with these goobers and that thing and that and will do a little bit of work together and they'll be like, "Holy crap. Like nobody's ever...I had no idea."

What they have no idea is is that if you're playing "The Game", put this thing inside of that, you have to abide by the rules of that game and the rules of that game typically lead people into the direction that is actually not the thing that they want. If that makes sense.

People want to be playing, let's say Twister but, the game they're playing is Monopoly and they have to abide by the rules of Monopoly. That's kind of the big thing that I see. It's like we're focusing on this arbitrary goal as if you attain a number and suddenly gold coins are going to fall down on your head or something and that's just not reality.

[Angel Donovan]: Yeah, yeah absolutely. I mean, I guess what happened when "The Game" came out was that guys started to accept that they have to do things differently. They were given this new model.

[Lawrence Lanoff]: Right.

[Angel Donovan]: Right, but then there comes the question, was that the right direction? Yeah, for sure something wasn't working before. My spiel is always like we have to look at reality for what it is right and I think it comes back to what we were talking about earlier about avoiding things.

[Lawrence Lanoff]: Yes.

[Angel Donovan]: What we see in our coaching is a lot of guys don't want to accept reality. They get frustrated with the way things work and "The Game" gave them this out. Obviously, it's been hugely popular, this different way to do it but, a lot of guys got really unsatisfied with that regardless if they had success in that model as you say.

[Lawrence Lanoff]: Exactly I mean, there's nothing wrong with the model. It's just, it's a model. It's incomplete. It's perfect if you want X number of hookups. You refine that and you refine the look and you do the thing but, if you want anything more than that and that's kind of what you were asking, I just play almost like in an entirely different universe.

It's not like I have, "Oh Hey, here's this technique," though there are techniques that you can do but, it has a lot more to do with just this kind of openness and flow that turns out is actually super charismatic. I think that's the thing. It's the way...here's the big difference.

I'm just going to lay this out. This is the best way I can describe it. All programs that I have seen, most of programs that I have seen where they get it wrong is they build a model of techniques. This is not just in meeting and attracting women or partners or whatever but, this is just pretty much in every area of human life.

Somebody say, "I have a model," and then, we're true believers. It's really hard to think critically so, we just go like, "Oh Okay well, that's a model" and we hear success stories and we're like, "Oh Okay well, that's it" and then, we go down that path. So, that model, it's an idea but, it's focused on a goal.

Let's take it out of the context of meeting and attracting and let's put it in a context of spirituality for two second. Somebody says, "Okay, the goal of meditation is to quiet your mind and so here are the steps that you do and these will lead you to a quiet mind." But, if you talk to any normal person, they'll tell you they can't meditate for the life of them, they have a really difficult time, blah, blah, blah. Right?

It's because a quiet mind is an emergent quality. A quiet mind is an emergent quality, not a goal. The same is true when we're dealing in the realm of meeting, attracting, sexuality, connection, charisma. You can technique but, there has to be...the magic sauce is when it becomes and emergent quality not something where you did a series of steps because, then you're always bound by the limitations of the steps.

[Angel Donovan]: Right so, it sounds like you a bit more meat or like help the guy understand what emergent quality is. You're talking about the quality of the experience or what would you call it?

[Lawrence Lanoff]: I mean, I have a bunch of different things but, one thing is just sexual flow. If you can be moving through life the flow state whether that's regarding sex, whether that's meeting and attracting, whether that's anything, if you can be moving in flow state, your results are going to be completely different because, you're not limited by the map. You're not limited by the limitation of the technique.

So, the emergent property is, if I teach you (which is what I do with my coaching students) how you're thinking about sex or how you're thinking about being a man or how you're thinking about women is 100%...and not in some bull shit esoteric, "The Secret" kind of way. I mean, literally how you are looking at the world, how you are thinking about women, sex, how you're thinking about your cock, how you're thinking about how you move through the world, how you feel about all those things are 100% affecting your experience and how other people interact with.

So, if we start to get that organized and through experiences and you see immediately....like one of my exercises I do is I'll take guys out and I'll say, "Okay, here's thinking structure. This is what you're currently doing. Let's just tweak. Let's change that," and I send them out into the same crowd and there are two entirely different reactions from the crowd and it's literally a two minute change. That's the part because, it has to be...ultimately, it has to be something that if you can get it to come from deep inside of you, you're good. Right, because you're going to be good in all kinds of situations that are even unpredictable. Does that make sense?

[Angel Donovan]: It does make a lot of sense. For guys to get like...what would be a little exercise you could put someone in to try and get them to access this state or it's something that you would typically give them?

[Lawrence Lanoff]: Yeah I mean, one thing is I would do a simple breathing technique. So, for example, if you understand...you know, just tying into what we've been talking about, you have this dopamine sort of excitatory system and then you have this relaxation response. Breathing is something that can take us into the relaxation response.

So, if I just right now, if your listeners...just for the fun of it, if I say, "Okay, let's take a deep breath." So, you just inhale. You hold the breath, hold it and then let it out your mouth with a sound "Ahhhhh". We'll do that one more time, just for fun. Inhale, hold the breathe and then, exhale and give it a sound, "Ahhhhh." What do you notice?

Right, your body for sure is already feeling different. Something has shifted. Something has changed. Maybe you're feeling a little tingle, a little vibration, a little relaxation, maybe become aware, more aware of sounds and all we did is we took too breaths, right?

So, it's not like anything is complicated. It's there but, we just have never been trained in that. So, if by taking two breaths, I'm more aware of my body, by definition, I am more tuned into my sexuality because, sexuality happens in our bodies. So, that's the big thing is is to say...

And we could take it a step further and say, "Okay, now that you're feeling in your body, what do your genitals feel like? You feel stress there? Do you feel like more expanding? Do you feel tingling? Do you feel nothing? Do you feel cut off?" And all of this has to do with our history and our belief systems.

That's kind of the essence of a very simple technique and I know for sure if you took nice deep breaths like that, you're already more in touch with your body. That's going to diminish your fear. If you diminish your fear, you're going to have better results in anything you do.

[Angel Donovan]: Yeah, yeah absolutely, I'm also thinking of broader implications, also having checked out your course. Obviously, I know what comes next but, when we look at this in the sphere of sex, you know that experience of sex when we're with a girl and we're actually having sex, it's extremely common today of course that guys are in their heads and I think most guys....

I think most guys would actually knowledge that. They've got some sort of performance focus or they've got used to porn. They might even be visualizing another girl. You know, let's be completely honest here. That happens a lot.

[Lawrence Lanoff]: Oh for sure, for sure, for sure.

[Angel Donovan]: So, what would you say great sex is and how does it relate to what we were just talking about breathing, being back in our reality or what are the implications of not being in touch with ourselves when we're having sex?

[Lawrence Lanoff]: Well, I mean I think the number one implication is you never get that chance to connect with another person and I think that one of the things...and research shows this. I mean, one of the things that makes life worthwhile is our ability to connect with other people. So guys that have been around "The Game" for a long time, I mean, typically there comes a point where they're like, "Man, I've done this or that but, I just want to connect. Like, I want a girlfriend. I want to have an experience. I want a..."

There's a classic person, a teacher who will remained unnamed who saw me at an event and he was just like, "Dude, please teach me. Teach me. What are you doing?" Because, he's like, "I have to go out every night. I'm spending tons of money. I'm getting drunk. You know, I have to drink. I have to do this thing and this lifestyle and I've got to...and what is it getting me?"

I think that's the bigger question. It's like, what do we want? So, if I get in touch with my body, what I can start to have is connection. What I can start to have is real vulnerability, real connection, real ability to go deep with somebody and if you've never had that experience, there may be some of your listeners going like, "What is this you're talking about?"

[Angel Donovan]: Yeah, yeah, I think some of them maybe.

[Lawrence Lanoff]: But, I think the value of connecting in your body is that you can therefore connect with another person. It is impossible. I was just teaching this past weekend and I was teaching in Boston and there's a lot of...Boston is a very heavy place. So, there are a lot of guys who are just rattling around with stuff in their head but, they don't have relationships and they don't have intimacy and they don't have connections.

So, they came to my class to kind of figure some of this stuff out and one of the first things that I have people do is just breathe and feel and then, of course, I've got a whole bunch of techniques on, many of which are in the programs that I do because, it's life changing men. That's the thing that people don't know.

Some guys may be sitting there going like, "I don't know what you're talking about" and I get it. I understand. I totally understand. It's impossible to know what you don't know. So, the first level of realization is, I am talking about a tangible thing and just because we don't know it, doesn't mean that it doesn't exist. This is what I call the fallacy of knowledge where you think like, "Well, if I don't know about it, it must not exist," because we think we know a lot.

So, typically what I'll do is I'll take somebody by the hand and I say, "I know you've had sex with Point A inside of Slot B. I'm sure you think like a lot of guys do that they're amazing lovers but, I have had the benefit of the last 20 years of working with people and I have spoken to the women of these 'amazing lovers' and typically that isn't what is happening. That people tolerate mediocre sex but, I want to upgrade the whole, Man."

[Angel Donovan]: If you were to talk about the average population, the average experience of sex...I know this is kind of hypothetical and theoretical but, I just want to try and get the guys to see what's going on. Is the average really mediocre? On a scale of one to ten, where is the average? Is it one or two or...?

[Lawrence Lanoff]: Average is like a two. Yeah, average is like. I mean, first of all, just know this, the average American...I'll speak for Americans, I don't about the Brits but, I do know not that far off but, the average American from start to finish...so, let's take our clothes off, let's get into bed, let's do whatever we do which may be nothing of foreplay, let's have sex, let's finish sex and let's clean up, get dressed, whatever finish and put our clothes back on. That process for the average American is ten minutes long.

[Angel Donovan]: And, how does that compare to an experience of a ten?

[Lawrence Lanoff]: That's the problem.

[Angel Donovan]: I know this is a really difficult to describe but, you know, I think we've got to take a shot at it.

[Lawrence Lanoff]: Okay so...

[Angel Donovan]: Okay cool.

[Lawrence Lanoff]: So a ten, it's not that difficult because, here's why. A ten means, I will be aware of sex and sex energy from moment one. So from the second eye contact is made, my awareness is we have already started the sex act. Right? Like, I don't have a better word to describe that but, I'm just saying, like we've all...like sex is already on the table from the first second and if you understand that that is reality. That when you're meeting somebody this is already in play.

Right? If we were living 100,000 years ago, it would be very obvious that it's in play but, we're all well-trained, very caged animals. So, we've learned to like wear our clothes and paint our nails and wear things and do things and act like we're beyond or we're not those kinds animals that want to sniff each other's butts but, the reality is that's on the table. It is there.

That's the reality. How you feel about it, your opinions about it, your religious beliefs or anything else are irrelevant because, it is on the table. So, great sex starts by realizing that there is ripe fruit hanging from the trees right from the second that you meet and not all of that fruit is edible. Not all of that fruit is necessarily there for you but, it is there.

So, if you're aware that from the moment of eye contact, from the moment of the first words, from the moment of everything that happens, you are basically engaged in this dance of sex and that those early stages of it are all about foreplay and dancing together and checking each other out but, that conversation is actually about sex. If you can become aware of that, now you have a through line, you have a narrative and you realize that there's a sexual creature in front of you and you are a sexual creature

And these are two sexual creatures that both want to have things put inside of them and put things inside of them. This is what we do. This is what human animals do. We want to put things inside of other human animals and play with them and feel good.

So, if you understand that's on the table right from the instant that you meet, now you've got through line. You have...you're in touch with what I call sexual flow. So, now everything that's happening is really one way or another about sex and logistics and chemistry, obviously. That there are pheromones flowing and there's some attraction happening on top of all of that.

It's a very interesting conversation through line and now, in that through line words are not what they appear to be. So, somebody may say, "Oh, well you know. I was just going to go home," but that doesn't mean that I'm really going home. That means, "Hey, can you invite me to the next phase of our dance together.

[Angel Donovan]: Right.

[Lawrence Lanoff]: There's this whole thing. So, now you're tracking an energetic through line as opposed to step one, step two, step three. So, by the time I am in...and I will give you an example of just something that literally just happened a couple days ago.

Met somebody at a restaurant, it was just like instant eye contact, instant chemistry, instant dance, that everything was on the table and over the course of a very short little while, there was sex and sex energy happening even though our clothes were on. I think that's the biggest paradigm shift that I can gives guys is to understand that it's all about sex.

It's not Point A inside of Slot B is like in some ways the boobie prize. Do you know what the boobie prize is?

[Angel Donovan]: I definitely heard that before. We watch so much American movies and TV and I don't even know what's English anymore.

[Lawrence Lanoff]: Okay, so the boobie prize...just in case somebody doesn't because, occasionally I run into people where I'm teaching where they're like, "What? What's the boobie...?" You know it's like where you...it's the prize you get when you don't basically accomplish anything. It's like, "Okay, well you at least played the game so, here's a boobie prize for you."

[Angel Donovan]: To make it you feel a bit better.

[Lawrence Lanoff]: Exactly and I feel like that's what...you know, when you put Point A inside of Slot B and you squirt, that's your boobie because, you missed this entire experience that was or could be happening. That can be emotional, that can be connected, that can be super intimate.

As I say as like a sex educator and sex geek, I can get to know you by taking you out and having conversations and wining and dining and taking on these things and all that. We can get to know each other that way or we can have sex and we can dance this process and talk about reality and have experiences. Those things, I'm going learn so much more about you and have so much more understanding and also, this is the key that the purpose of sex is actually social bonding.

So, the misinformation that's out there is that sex is about procreation. That you're only supposed to do it in this way with these people who have been married and straight and all this stuff. Fortunately, that's really changing culturally but fundamentally, if you strip all that stuff, the reality is sex is about bonding.

So, if you don't understand fundamentally, you're not having good sex. Does that make sense?

[Angel Donovan]: Yeah no, I think that's very clear. I mean, it also helps to give guys a bit of goal. That's not what you want but, they can kind of like understand. If I've socially bonded with someone then, you can say, "I'm having a greater quality of sex." I mean it's an [inaudible] kind of describe it. The end goal is to socially bound rather than putting...how do you say? Point A in Point B?

[Lawrence Lanoff]: Yeah, Point A inside of Slot B, right? Because if you're bonding, all that stuff that a lot of the industry was built on like LMR and all that crap. Like, I never deal with that stuff because, there's connection. If you have connection, you don't have to trick somebody into having sex with you. They want to. It's just so natural and obvious and it's like, "Why wouldn't you?"

Then, I mean, just to really cement this idea home, if you're one of those people listening to this and you're like, "Okay, okay, I'm sold. Like I want to know more," then start studying this stuff because, then you can meet a girl. Not only realize sex is in play instantaneously, now you become aware of that, you realize like, "She has had ongoing sex life." You two are meeting with that.

But furthermore, you could to literally any woman in the world...guys are shocked when I have deep conversations about sex like one, two, three minutes into a conversation. We're getting to like nitty gritty stuff. They're just...they look at me like, "What on earth just happened?"

But, when you can talk to a woman and say, "Hey, by the way you know, I'm studying tantra," for example. "I'm studying breathing and sexuality. I'm studying the psychology of sexuality and I have this technique, this idea, this thing I want to try. What do you think?"

It's like, no more calls ladies and gentleman. We have our winner. Women used to shitty sex that any guy who's doing anything to make any kind of improvement, they're just doing the happy dance.

[Angel Donovan]: That's great and I think some of the things guys struggle with, it's like the one-night-stand phenomenon. A lot of guys will start feeling they're getting successful with this because, they're getting a girl home for the first time. Then, the next challenge and the problem that comes up in their life is that the girls aren't hanging around.

For me, I always look at it as just creating any of this unique bond. I'm really glad you brought the word bond up. You're creating any unique connection or bond and so, there's no reason...you're not different to anyone else, right?

If you think about all of the physical techniques, the physical aspects of sex, how different can you be compared to the next guy? There's not a huge variants there in terms of what the experience is going to be like for the woman and you if you're just looking just solely the physical aspects of the sex.

[Lawrence Lanoff]: I would say yes and...So, I would say for 90% of the population that's true. If you were to just take one of the techniques and sometimes I'll do this with a guy who's like, "Please, just teach one thing." So, I'll tell your guys this.

I have something called comfort touch and comfort touch is just putting a hand, one palm on cupping her, the opening of her vulva and vagina with sort of palm, fingers facing up towards the pubic bone. So, she's on her back and you comfortably put the palm of your hand over her vulva and then, your finger tips are kind of above her pubic bone. Then, you take another hand and you put that on her heart. And then you just...

[Angel Donovan]: Wow.

[Lawrence Lanoff]: You breathe together. That's a technique most women have never experienced in their life. So if you bust out that technique, that is something completely different, not something she's experienced. If you do that one technique and you do that and you keep some eye contact and you breathe together and you really have like this generous spirit...because, I think the key to good sex is generosity. You have to be generous.

If you're just like, "I'm going to get off. Have a good life." Of course not. Then, why would she ever call you back much less want to be your girlfriend but, you scratched an itch for an hour or a half an hour or five minutes, whatever. It is what is but, there's no reason for a repeat customers and she's not going to be telling her friends like, "Oh my god, this guy blew my mind. You need to sleep with him."

But that happens to the guys I teach, like it's not uncommon. A friend of...well, like one of my students just texted me. He literally...the text started with an "I love you, Man." I'm like, "Why?" and he goes, "Well you know, this girl just invited me to have a threesome with her and her best girlfriend." And he's just like, "Thank you."

Right because, girls are very generous if they're not in possession mode or something, they're super generous. They're like, "Man, I had this amazing experience. You try him. Pass him around," you know?

[Angel Donovan]: Yeah, yeah.

[Lawrence Lanoff]: So there are actually really specific things you can do that are just so different.

[Angel Donovan]: Right, the example you brought up there, I would say, it's a lot more emotional and mental than physical. I guess the standard things like...when I'm thinking about physical, I'm thinking about all the moves in porn. You know, there are some other moves and angles and whatever, you can do different stuff, right?

But, you introduced this whole new dimension in terms of emotion and mental which in my experience, and it's kind of where I see you're coming from is it, the whole thing about sex is it's more mental and it's bonding, right? That's where the real experience comes and makes you unique versus the other guys she's seen in her life.

[Lawrence Lanoff]: Yeah exactly right because, it's the difference...what I call this in...and guys look, if you're doing this, it's fine. Like I have zero normal stories about this. Like you would have no way of learning this, right? You're going to learn it from porn. You're going to learn it from Playboy or Hustler.

You have to learn it through experience. You have to be taught. You have to have somebody who has preexisting that can share it. That's just the truth otherwise...because, if you look at porn, you would think that the only thing you have to do is stick a cock in a vagina and move it around fast or slam it and a girl's just going to have this endless flow of orgasms and will just be sexually satisfied.

That's just a disservice because, we've depended on porn for our sex education but, it's just not true. It's just a...it just isn't how it works.

There are going to be some girls who are like, "Please, slam me." That's fine but, if you want connection, if you want something, you have to work at a deeper level. You have to go deeper and there's only so much you can do with friction sex.

That's what you were saying earlier. It's like, there are only so many moves. There are only so many things you can do. Point A inside of Slot B has a limited number of options. That's just reality.

[Angel Donovan]: Yeah, absolutely. I guess another big question is each woman's different. She's different sexual preferences and desires. In my experience, getting to know a girl's real desires, it changes the whole relationship and it's not easy to do.

I feel like most guys, they struggle with a) accepting what those desire would be and not being judgmental about it and b) how do they communicate with a girl in a way that she's going to actually bring these up and talk to them and they can actually communicate about this and kind of get to this place where they're having...they're going through both of their sexual desires and they're meeting their own needs on that level.

[Lawrence Lanoff]: Well seriously, it's such a good question because, it really starts with you. So my experience is, lots of guys feel ashamed about their deepest sexual desires. It just has been the thing. I can't tell you how many guys in different worlds that I've traveled have, when they find out what I do, they pull me aside and they're like, "Hey, I have a question," or "Hey, don't tell anybody but, can I ask you about this?"

So, one of the typical questions is, is it normal? Is it okay that I like X, Y, Z thing? So, the first thing is you have to come to terms with your own deepest, again air quotes here, "darkest" desires. You've got to be able to go to those places inside of yourself and be okay with them.

So if you're not okay with them, that means that you're stressed out about stuff that is okay and not okay to do. If you're stressed, she's going to feel that. She's going to feel just because, what if she says, for example...

Like, this happened recently. I was having this very direct intimate conversation with somebody who I relatively recently met. I mean, I'm talking within like a 45 minutes and we came up the issue of "having sex with more than one people" and...

[Angel Donovan]: Right.

[Lawrence Lanoff]: Ultimately, what it was was she was like, "Well, really what I want to do is get gang banged." Right and she used that word and the guy that she was with...

[Angel Donovan]: Imagine.

[Lawrence Lanoff]: It was like, I mean he almost fell off his chair. Like, I almost...really I was going to have to calm.

[Angel Donovan]: I'm just imagining his face. He's like, he doesn't know what to do.

[Lawrence Lanoff]: He had no idea what to do. Now you and I both know, he's looked at gang bang porn before. You and I both know, he's probably gotten off to some version of that but, it's so suppressed and in his psyched so pushed down that when she said that, it was like a mixture of like wanting to shame her and you know, "Well, kind of woman and I don't want my girlfriend to and blah, blah." Like it was this very bizarre mix.

So, women are checking for that all the time. They're taking the temperature of, "If I reveal this, how are you going to respond?" My bottom line is, I'm going to respond with safe space. I don't care how bizarre I think it is, whether I want to try it or I don't want to try it or whatever, I fundamentally understand we are sexual creatures and all you have to do is look at porn to understand that the way our sexuality expresses is infinite.

So, there's nothing that's going to come out of her mouth that's going to shock me and that's my frame. I mean, that's like kind of a frame that I have. So if she throws out a little thing like, "Oh well, you know, I kind of always had this...you know...like I've always wanted to be double penetrated," I'm like, "Hell yeah. How do we make that happen? Let's talk about how to make this a reality. You know, could we...you want to like use a dildo and a real things? Do you want to actually have another person? Like, what would make that awesome for you?"

When they're met with that kind of a response, it's like, "Oh, this guy's totally cool. I can basically share anything and it's going to be okay." I think that really...if a guy can be in that space where you accept your own desire, you accept that part of you that wants to be the guy who's doing the gang banging, let's say and you can really just be at peace with that, it's the most normal thing.

You know all these flavors of things, they're just normal. It's like, if you can do and you want to do it, it's pretty much normal. Obviously, I have a cut off which is called, "with consenting adults." Right? This is key.

We're not talking about like, "Oh, I want to whatever." I'm talking about with consenting adults if you...because...trust me, if you want to do it, there's probably an organization meeting in New York city today that is an organization about what it is you want to do with consenting adults who are into it.

So you just have to open up your field a little bit more but basically, there's nothing you want to do that there isn't somebody else who wants to do it with you and that's the fun part of an adult sexual human. We like sex and we like it all kinds of different ways and if you understand that at the most fundamental level...

Kick back to the beginning of this interview where I said, "Fundamentally, the thing that I know that I know a lot of people seem to know is we're sexual creatures and we want to have sex." Male and female. All this stuff of like, "women don't want sex as much as men" is bullshit. It's just they don't want bad sex.

They sort of have to ask a much bigger question which is, "Is this juice going to be worth the squeeze and if it's not, I'm not going to do it." That's the only difference but, there's also social consequences but, if none of those were on the table, there would a lot, lot, lot, lot, lot more sex happening but, there's a lot of their social pressures, religious pressures, social consequences but, you know, there's of that. But the reality is is we're all sexual creatures and all want to have fun and feel good.

So if I were to give a guy a piece of homework, what I would say is, "Just realize that every woman you look at regardless of her age, one way or another has found a way to express her sexual energy, right? And maybe her partner knows nothing about how she's doing it.

Maybe she's got books that she goes to. Maybe she's got a little secret online account. Maybe she's got a little text buddy or who knows how but, whatever she's doing, she one way or another is...maybe it's yoga but, one way or another she is expressing and moving her sensual sexual side and we just need to open our eyes and see that men because, it's out there everywhere.

[Angel Donovan]: Yeah and it kind of goes back to what we were talking about a bit earlier about accepting reality because, a lot of these guys, they don't want to accept the reality that a girl's having to meet her sexual needs in a variety of ways and it's not necessarily you right now. Because, basically the sexual needs are a lot more diverse and in depth than you've ever seen before, You've realized it's possible and so on but, she still has them and she's still trying to meet them somehow.

And that's not a nice sport to think about right? If you're starting in this place where it's not you, it's not you or your ego who’s helping her with that. So, for a guy when he...I think one of the fear points in kind of connecting with someone on another level is you've already brought up is what the social environment is going to think of it. What the religion, all this kind of stuff comes into it.

And I guess, guys think about like, "Oh maybe I'll get shamed in the process of trying to open up communication out to a deeper level. Like, how do I start this process? Is it that I go first and I let a little bit my own true desires, sexual needs and I just kind of show that I'm relaxed with it." Is that how I go first to kind of introduce this deeper level of communication?

[Lawrence Lanoff]: Yeah, I think so. I think you have to...I mean, I think one thing is do your inner work while you're doing all this other stuff. So, confront your own, confront your own desires. Like always be doing that but, as you make peace with some of these things, yeah you want to go first.

You want to say, "Hey, I've been thinking about this thing and I wanted to share with you and get your thoughts on it. I mean, like I've noticed that I really have (for example) a foot fetish and I'm just wondering what you think about that. Like would you be...I'd really like to have the discussion."

And by the way, I have conversation which I'll share with your guys because, it's the most practical...I mean, you want some practical tools. We talked about this beforehand. One practical tool would be what I call the "difficult conversation formula" that was really codified by my friend Reid, Reid Mihalko. He's a great sex educator.

[Angel Donovan]: Yeah, he's very cool.

[Lawrence Lanoff]: Yeah, I love Reid and we've been friends a long time and he came up with something called "the difficult conversation formula." The essence of it is this, you basically say...you go to somebody and let's say we're going to talk about a foot fetish.

You would say...you'd first find out if your partner has the bandwidth, the time and the...you know, is feeling good to have a difficult conversation and if they're a yes and you're a yes then great. Then, you start the conversation and you basically share your worst possible scenario of sharing the thing.

"So, here's what I'm afraid of. I'm afraid that if I share this with you, you're going think I'm a filthy disgusting sex pig and you're never going to want to talk to me again and you're going to hate me. You're going to tell all your friends and I'm going to be socially shunted aside. You're going to be like, 'Oh my God, that's disgusting" and I'm never going to get laid again because...in this circle and I'm going to have the leave the country. That's my fear." I like to go to the extreme of it because...not a fake extreme but really where does my fear go and be very genuine about it.

[Angel Donovan]: Yeah deep down, what is that fear because, it tends to be super exaggerated like that.

[Lawrence Lanoff]: Yeah, it totally does, yeah. So, then you go to the fear and you put that on the table. Then you say, "Here's what I'd like to happen. What I'd like to do is be able to share what I'm going to share and for you to say, 'Wow, that's awesome. Let's make a date. Let's set up a really fun time and let's go fulfill this desire and I'll see then if I like or if I don't like it and maybe we'll even try it a few times and then we'll see.' That's what I'd like to have happen. Here's what I want to say," and then you just put it out there.

What that does is it emotionally levels the playing field. I am all about leveling the playing field whenever possible. You do not want to be the guy ever... just in life in general, just hear me on this. You don't want to be the guy who’s like, you're working hard and you're kind of putting off your pleasure and your happiness right now to make a ton of money so that you can get these high-powered model girls or whatever.

So maybe you work for five years just non-stop and you're not having sex and you're just relying porn and whatever and there's no intimacy, there's no connection, you're just doing the thing. And then you...now you got the money and care and you go out and you go to the club and some girl meets you and connects with you because, you have money and a car. Right?

Those guys are some of the loneliest dudes I know in Los Angeles and you know what they're coming to me for. They're like, "Well, I just don't want to...you know, I just feel like I'm being used. I feel like nobody knows me for me." Right? So, that's why I say, always level the playing field.

So, one way you do that is you share your vulnerabilities because, everybody...we're human. We...all human animals have vulnerabilities. We're all afraid of stuff. We're all...we feel insecure about stuff. We're...you know for guys, we're worried are...and you watch a lot of porn then, you definitely think your penis isn't big enough and there's all of that stuff that goes on and if you can just share about those things, it just creates this like really fun, playful intimate space.

I feel like that really needs to be the framework. Sex is fun. It's playful. It's not all this serious stuff that we've been given is just incorrect and if you are playing that game so seriously, you're never going to get the results you want because, who wants to like, "Hey yeah, let's get together and be miserable. Hey, let's get together and be judged. Hey, let's get together and get naked and be slammed like a porn movie."

So, we really have to rebuild and actually, this is why I started making all these things because, I personally can't go around and teach everybody. I want to. Trust me, if I could have a room of 1000 guys and...I mean, I hope I can do something like that someday because, it's life changing.

It's life changing. It is life changing. You could all the virtual seeking in the world but, you have connected deep sex with another human and you feel open or your belly relax or you feel your cock for the first time really, you'll feel like a new human being.

We had some of that this weekend with some teaching some of the stuff that I was teaching and people were hooking and having experiences that they'd never had in their lives. I did not even know that was possible and when you have that experience, it's like being on top of the world. Really because, you feel so good as an adult and that doesn't happen very often. And no car and no amount of money is going to make you feel good in your body like that. If that makes sense?

[Angel Donovan]: It absolutely makes sense to me. I've been there. I've had those experiences and I hope it's inspiring. I think you do a good job of...what I saw you know when I was watching [inaudible], you're a really good teacher and you're very good at inspiring and I think you just did a pretty good job, damned good job of it right there.

I think that's going to help to get guys motivated because, it is hard to cross this canyon of us not knowing how great it can be, right? Having that belief that there is this much better thing waiting and we have to take some risks to get there like showing your vulnerabilities and so on you know.

Sometimes, we perceive that the risks are greater than the reward because, we don't know what's there and we don't know how great it is. But, you do a great, great job of trying to show what's out there waiting for people.

[Lawrence Lanoff]: Thanks, Man. I really appreciate. I mean, I hope you understand. You know, it's weird through just a disembodied voice, I don't know how much that communicates but, I hope you and...I know you do obviously but, I mean I hope your listeners...I hope you guys understand inspired I am and I am on your team. It may sound like some of the things I say maybe offensive or maybe they sound a little harsh Man but, somebody has got to tell you the way it is and...

[Angel Donovan]: Tough love.

[Lawrence Lanoff]: Yeah and I am on your team because, if you go through life and you do not know what it is to have your mind blown, to not be able to speak because the sex and the depth and the connection and the experience you had was so incredible that you literally can't talk or you have trouble walking or it takes you a while to come back to earth...if you go to your deathbed without that experience, you've missed part of the game of life that is so important to play.

I'm sorry that that game has been hidden and misrepresented and sort of made so trite but, it's so...it's profound and it's life changing and that's why I do this, Man. You could go and sit in a cave for a fucking month and get less than one connected deep experience where you're just like, "I am engulfed in pleasure and peace and ease and flow and bliss." You know what I mean?

That's what inspires me because, it's possible. Not only is it possible, it happens. Not only does it happen, it's teachable. You can learn it. You can have that experience which means, you can have that experience just most people don't know. So, that's why I'm passionate about it Man because, it's like to die not knowing what's possible is just...it's heartbreaking.

[Angel Donovan]: It is. You know, I kind of look back at my life in my early 20s where I was in another world and really glad I jumped out of that. It would be like a real regret if I had...like would be looking back now and kind of understood what I understand and then, never experienced it.

[Lawrence Lanoff]: I know.

[Angel Donovan]: Yeah, it's good to carry around regret I think sometimes. You know, it's a good motivator. The thing we have wrong in our lives...

[Lawrence Lanoff]: Oh absolutely.

[Angel Donovan]: ...it gives us good motivation to make the rest of it right going forward. It's helpful.

[Lawrence Lanoff]: Trust me, trust me Dude. You are talking to somebody who has tons of regrets and that is part of my fuel. That's part of my rocket fuel. So, I think that's a really great nuance. It's like I'm Pollyannaish. Like, "Oh, it was all for the good." Some stuff was really fucked up and it was not for the good but, it motivates you. It motivates you. It drives you.

[Angel Donovan]: And then, it gets better and that's where we're headed.

[Lawrence Lanoff]: Yeah, exactly.

[Angel Donovan]: This has been awesome, a great conversation, really enjoyed. What would be the best ways for people to connect with you? Are you on Twitter? Are you blogging? Like where are you kind of active where people can connect with your stuff?

[Lawrence Lanoff]: Yeah, there's a couple different ways. So, one is my website. It's a great starting place www.LawrenceLanoff.com. I'm on Twitter. You can find me there, Lawrence Lanoff.

YouTube is a great place. I'm constantly putting up new ideas and new material. I have sexual breathing on YouTube. It's a free video. Grab that sucker, like go there now. Go look up sexual breathing. It's great. Do it for 30 days, get back to me. That alone might be life changing for people.

I put a lot of really free material I'm working. Workshopping stuff, I throw that up on YouTube. I think those are the best way and if you want to email me, there's a...my email's on my website and if there's something specific or...those are the...or you know, hit me up on Twitter. All of the above, I'm there. I love this stuff.

[Angel Donovan]: Cool, yeah excellent. Is there anyone besides yourself (I think I know who you're going to say) would you recommend for high quality advice in this area?

[Lawrence Lanoff]: Besides, you?

[Angel Donovan]: Oh no, not me. Yeah, besides me and you. I'm interested in like besides yourself, anyone and of course, beside me definitely.

[Lawrence Lanoff]: Who would you think...I'm really curious who you think I would say.

[Angel Donovan]: I'll tell you after. You have to put them out there first and then...

[Lawrence Lanoff]: My list is pretty limited because, I really...for me, my goal is only to teach without bullshit. Really teach like at an essential level and there's a lot of bullshit out there. So, I'm curious. I'm really curious who because, maybe I'm missing that person. Maybe it would be somebody like...and I'd be like, "Yes."

[Angel Donovan]: You want me to just tell you right out? Well, Reid, I mean Reid Mihalko.

[Lawrence Lanoff]: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Angel Donovan]: I mean, you've already mentioned him in this interview, yeah.

[Lawrence Lanoff]: Yeah Reid, for...right. Reid, yeah. So, okay right. I think I went a little too deep into the question. Definitely Reid Mihalko, definitely Monique Darling who I co-teach with. I co-teach with both of those guys.

I think there's some very sweet people in tantra-land. You know but, you have to be very careful there. It can get really weird really quickly but...

[Angel Donovan]: Right.

[Lawrence Lanoff]: ...but...

[Angel Donovan]: Right, I've heard about that.

[Lawrence Lanoff]: Yeah but, I think like people who are...anybody's who's talking pleasure without a lot of rules, laws, rituals and morality, that's fine. There's not that many but there are people who...there are like genuine people. Lots of...you know, there are sex educators who are doing it because, they're passionate, because they want to help guys get good at stuff and humans, just humans get good. So, Reid for sure, I mean...and he's www.ReidAboutSex.com by the way and...

[Angel Donovan]: Yeah, he's been on the show before actually. We had him a while back. So guys, you can check out the interview. It was a great interview.

[Lawrence Lanoff]: Yeah, I mean he's just a genuine human and we've had lots of...in fact he and I talk on Language of Lust. He and I talk about threesomes. So, yeah. So I was...it's funny because, when you asked that question, I was framing in like...in a very specific like the narrow band because, a lot of people are like, "Well, who specifically would you recommend in tantra-land per se?"

[Angel Donovan]: Ahhh, right.

[Lawrence Lanoff]: That's a very...it's just a very small list.

[Angel Donovan]: I see you as much more and much, much broader. I mean like I was talking about the whole dating, sex and relationships you know.

[Lawrence Lanoff]: Yeah, yeah yeah.

[Angel Donovan]: There's good people you've met and I know you've met a lot.

[Lawrence Lanoff]: I've met a lot of cool people but, definitely start at those places. Those are really good folks and they're not...they're teaching without a lot of B.S. and I think that's the key.

[Angel Donovan]: Absolutely because, yeah there's a lot of B.S. out there. It's amazing how much...we're like in the age of misinformation right now thanks to the internet and everything else.

[Lawrence Lanoff]: Oh my god, it's incredible.

[Angel Donovan]: It's really tough for guys. I got into this in 2000 and luckily, there wasn't as much information out there. It wasn't as a handicap like today. Everyone who comes to us is like really confused. They're like, "There's so many products. There are so many different teachers. There's so many different approaches too it." It is a maze. It's pretty confusing out there.

Okay so, last question. Top three recommendations to guys if they're like starting from scratch from all of this. Maybe he just got divorced and he's kind of restarting or maybe he's relatively young in his early 20s, hasn't had any experience, what would be your top three recommendations to get him started in the right direction with his whole dating, sex and relationships life.

[Lawrence Lanoff]: Okay so number one obviously, at this point I have three different programs out there, pick any one. Right? So, I have Language of Lust. All of those you can find on my site. You know, I'm www.LawrenceLanoff.com. So, Language of Lust. I have Tantra X which is like all of these things that we've been talking in depth.

[Angel Donovan]: Yeah, yeah absolutely. I've already checked out the Language of Lust one and I'm going to check out the other one but, I can say for Language of Lust, it's a great program and it's very long as well. There's a ton of depth in there. Ton of material so, it's worth really working your way through it over time.

I can see like, I went it through it for a few days pretty intensive but obviously, I've seen a lot of stuff before but, I think for most guys, you know you can definitely put a few weeks and study hard and restudy and re-go over it especially when you start getting more experiences, restart it, re-go into it and you'll get more out of it and yeah, it's a great program.

[Lawrence Lanoff]: So, that's number one. Number two, I am not even joking, do...well first of all in Language of Lust, if you're just starting out, there are two of the most important, absolutely the most important things I've ever recorded. Number one is the Suggest and Direct Module. It's super important. It's such a powerful skill and it's so simple.

It's such an inexpensive program Language of Lust. Like, whatever it is spend. Just go and study that one module because, if you start to understand Suggest and Direct like that process, it's going to open up a whole universe for you.

The second piece is the piece on Pleasure Resistance and understanding that we humans just...we do have resistance to feeling good and if you understand that that's it's not last-minute resistance, it's pleasure resistant. "I am afraid that if I feel too good, bad things are going to happen." So, those two things are super important especially if you're heading back into the dating thing. If you're coming out of a divorce, you have to understand language at its basic level and then, understand that what...that some of these resistances that you think are things against you have nothing to do with you.

So that would be other thing, like don't take anything personally but aside from that, then the next thing, head over to my YouTube channel, right? So, www.YouTube.com/Lawrence Lanoff or Soul Light. That's my channel and do the 30-Day Tantric Breathing Challenge.

Do that because, if can start to learn to breathe and move your body and own your body and feel your sexuality, how you move through the world will totally change. That's just a fact. It's not like some theoretical thing. It is just reality. If you're feeling more confident and calm and relaxed with your sexuality and in your body, the world responds entirely differently.

[Angel Donovan]: I understand the value of that last point. I think some people struggle because, they think it's "Woo, woo," right? Because we get this like, "Oh that's more of that 'Woo, woo stuff'." How do you reply to...is there a way you get your point across when someone's like, "Oh, it sounds more like 'Woo, woo' stuff. You know kind of I don't really understand it. It's not for me." How do you respond to that?

[Lawrence Lanoff]: Okay so the best way I could describe it...it would be so much more easy for me to show but, have you ever seen a girl and you look at her and she's kind of got greasy hair, maybe she's you know kind of got glasses on and she's got a big frumpy shirt or a jumper on and just hanging. You look at her and you would not even notice her. Right, you just would not see her at all. You'd just like, "Okay, just whoever, whatever."

But, it turns out that that's just an expression of how she's feeling about herself or maybe how she's feeling about sex. But then, you...let's say you did go with the conversation and you're sticking with her and you're kind of finding out more and then, you see like, "Wow." She's pulls her hair back and takes the glasses off and takes the jumper off and you're like, "Holy smokes, where did you come from?" and yet, it's the same person but, you're responding entirely differently, right?

Same person, nothing particularly changed but, maybe she feels safer and suddenly she's like, instead of hunching over and trying to hide her breast, she's just like, "Oh, I'm comfortable now" and suddenly her chest opens and you see this different human in front of you. What happened? She didn't change. She didn't morph but, how you felt about her was entirely different by how she was feeling about herself.

So many people go through and they're like, "Oh well, I'm just this. I have this belief about myself. I'm not attractive." I was one of those guys. I was walking around feeling like I was the ugliest dude alive. Really.

My grandmother, one of things she said to me was like, "As soon as you can make enough money, young man you need to get a nose job." Like that really was said to me. So, you talk...I don't feel that at all anymore and the world responds entirely different but, what changed? It's all internal. It's all how I'm feeling about me.

I know it sounds "Woo, woo" but, all I can say is, if somebody is really, really ready, do that breathing exercise and if you're like really, really ready like somebody's just says, "I want to get my life handled," where you really see this that's the one-on-one coaching work because, every individual has their own bullshit belief systems and things that are holding them back and you cannot see them.

It is only until somebody looks, like myself...I have an expertise in this. I say to you for example, "Okay, we're going to make this little change. For example, I want you to just pretend that you have a, let's say a 10-inch cock. Now go walk through the crowd and tell me what happens."

Right, it's not...it's so not "Woo, woo." It's exactly the opposite of "Woo." It's so practical and tangible and instantaneous and has nothing to do with the bullshit of like, "Think good thoughts or be a good person." It's exactly the opposite of that because, it's reality.

It you're walking around and you're feeling like, "I'm a hot man," the world is going to respond to you as if you're a hot man. That just is what it is and that's why you can see this...these like...you know, sometimes...

I remember this one dude, this one French dude was like rapping to this...like in terms of looks, like she was a ten and he was like a two and his hair was messed and his teeth were messed. He had this thick French accent and he was like this but, you could feel that he felt like he was the hottest dude in the world. Genuinely felt like, "I'm the most sexual, incredible, amazing, hot guy," and he took that girl home.

I was like, "Oh my god, this has nothing to do with how we tangibly look. This is not about the facts. It's about how we are feeling inside and how that then expresses in the world." That my friend is as tangible as the frickin air you're breathing. You may not see it but, it's super important. It's as important as air.

[Angel Donovan]: I think that's a pretty good response. Thank you so much for that. I know I put you on the spot with that but, I always to tackle those things that guys you know are going to be thinking.

[Lawrence Lanoff]: Oh no, I love it. Come one.

[Angel Donovan]: And I think it's important to do that otherwise the information doesn't get out properly.

[Lawrence Lanoff]: You know what, if your guys have questions, I am happy to come back any time. Like if people hear this and they want to know more or you're just like, "Hey, there's some..." I love this stuff.

[Angel Donovan]: Great.

[Lawrence Lanoff]: So, I'm here.

[Angel Donovan]: Sounds good, Man. Thank you so much for being on the show. I really thanks for your time. It's been a great time.

[Lawrence Lanoff]: Oh, my pleasure. It's great meeting you and connecting and so, so awesome to be speaking to your crew here. So, have a beautiful....

[Angel Donovan]: Yeah, yeah you're right, yeah.

[Lawrence Lanoff]: ...afternoon? Evening?

[Angel Donovan]: You're in morning still, right? Yeah pretty much. Alright Man, well great.

[Lawrence Lanoff]: Yeah.