#112 Practical Steps to Becoming a Stronger Man with Andrew Ferebee

[Angel Donovan]: Andrew, thanks so much for being on the show.

[Andrew Ferebee]: How's it going, Angel? Glad to be here.

[Angel Donovan]: Great. To start with, I just wanted to kick off and let people get to know you a little bit. Why did Knowledge for Men come about? Was it some kind of event which kind of spurred you to tackle that and was it related at all to dating life. I mean obviously, that's what we're more interested here on the show.

[Andrew Ferebee]: Oh Man. Yeah, I started getting into the whole dating thing probably about eight years ago and that was what introduced to personal development. It was just dating advice. Obviously, David D'Angelo's stuff and that's just kind of what put me down the path of personal development. From there, I started discovering about Anthony Robbins and Jack Canfield. I started getting into those books, success books, entrepreneur books.

I found myself in a position after college where I hated my job. I was managing a major retailer here in San Diego, California and probably about 80 employees. It was a corporate job. It was just not what I wanted and then, I just fell back, "Man, you've read all these books on success, on entrepreneurship, on real estate, on investing and you're applying any of it." So, that was when it started hitting me and I'm like, "Man, you are just completely living in authentically here. You're reading all these books yet, you're not taking any action and you have this complete job that you've read all these books to avoid getting," and somehow, I found myself in that position.

There was a breakup that happened and then, there was me quitting the job and just saying, "You know what? I'm going to start this blog. I'm going to start writing and see what happens from here." So, I just started writing about personal development and my experiences post-college and in the corporate life and having quit and having gone through a serious breakup. The blog has since gone... it's just been two years and the blog has...

I started writing articles. I was getting hundreds of thousands of views and since then, I started a pod cast called The Knowledge for Men Pod Cast which gets over 80,000 downloads a month and we talk about personal development. Dating of course was a cornerstone of the whole thing when it first started.

[Angel Donovan]: Yeah, excellent. So, it sounded like you weren't applying information which is a common issue we come across. Does that apply for the dating area as well or were you applying some of that and not so much the other stuff? How did it run down?

[Andrew Ferebee]: Yeah, it's kind of more like where are you the most painful and that's probably where you're neglecting... it's probably the area that you need to be taking the most action on. For me, I was completely living out of alignment. I wanted to be this entrepreneur. I was reading all the books and I just wasn't there. I was in this corporate job and for the longest time after coming out of that and being single and going back into dating, it's like the same thing happened again. It's like you're consuming so much content. It's like we're addicted to content and it's crazy because, the content online, it's better and better and better and the headlines are better. The content is better. Things that you used...

[Angel Donovan]: The copy is better.

[Andrew Ferebee]: The copy is way better. The copy guys are just the text and the way it's written to just keep you engaged and guys nowadays, stuff that is free was stuff stuff that guys were selling for hundreds of dollars several years ago. Some of the best content is free on http://www.YouTube.com, on blogs and some of the guys put out their best stuff for free or you could just buy it in a book and it becomes addicting because, it's like, "Oh my gosh! It's so good. It's so good," and you feel like you're just growing and growing. As you read it, you're like, "Oh my gosh! Major epiphanies left and right," but not getting results.

That's all that matters. You've got to learn of course but, there comes a point when you've got to put down the book. You've got to turn off the computer and you've got to get out in the real world and stop getting addicted to content and start producing results.

[Angel Donovan]: Yeah absolutely. That's actually where Dating Skills Review started, telling people that it was an information-overload world and we wanted to reduce all of that and then, we go out putting all these pod casts which doesn't help. No, I'm just kidding. Give us a bit of context about your life right now in terms of your age, relationships or just your dating life style. What is it like today and how do you feel about it?

[Andrew Ferebee]: Sure yeah. So, I'm 27, turning 28 in about two months coming around here and I'm living here on the beach in San Diego, California. When I first started, I was living in my mom's little basement room and just broke. I was making $500 a month and now running a six figure online business, helping men grow and become the most powerful versions of themselves and just helping in different aspects of their lives.

I'm dating multiple girls right now. I'm in the best shape of my life right now. I try and be exactly like what I preach. Like if I say I'm doing this like, "Oh Guys, find your purpose," I'm working on that actively in my life. Like, I believe I've found something and I work on that every day. When I say, "Guys, this is what I do with dating..."

I recently just came out with a book, The Dating Playbook for Men and everything in there is what I do. Everything in there is what I do all the time. It is me and it's how I've been able to... success with women, working on your dating has been the cornerstone of Knowledge for Men. It's where it started. It was my pain-point when I first started and that where I was consuming all of these books and all these course. It's impacted all aspects of my life.

Like I said, I got a six figure online business. I am an entrenpeur now living... I'm traveling the country. I'm constantly at the airport, moving around, just enjoying life and when you travel, having the ability to go out on your own, meet new women and date new women when you're in a completely new town all by yourself. I think that is almost like a true testament of a man's skills with dating. So, if you can just travel somewhere new and he's perfectly okay.

He doesn't need to have friends, doesn't need to have alcohol or drugs and can completely just go out and have an awesome time. Meet women, take home women, start dating new women in a completely new town.

[Angel Donovan]: Yeah excellent. It really speaks about freedom there, like freedom to choose and living a life of adventure. I think that's one of the things that's missing from men's lives a little bit is like adventure. You're talking about you're a retail manager and it sounded like you kind of got into a routine there whereas, the stuff you've been talking about just a second ago sounds like, you've got yourself up for adventure and it's really living in the moment.

So, I dug into your book. I dug into so, I want to talk about it. I think it's a good angle for us. We haven't really connected the strong men's development. Obviously, your show has a very kind of like strong self-development angle to it compared to what we do here. I focus on that more than some of the aspects that we may have covered in other shows because, it's a bit more unique for you.

One of the quotes I pulled out here is, "You're not a strong confident man. You are a boy inside an adult body." What does this mean for you?

[Andrew Ferebee]: Well, it's a guy who's grown up yet, hasn't taken responsibility for his life. It's like his level of personal development did not grown as he grew in age. So, some men are operating on the same level as when they were in high school or as when they were in college yet, they're in late 20s. They're in their late 30s. They're in their 40s and so on. That's pretty much what that means. He didn't grow and he's still a boy inside, deep down inside, he is still a boy.

[Angel Donovan]: What kind of things would that mean? If we could talk about the kinds of ideas or feelings, what governs his daily life that would be a practical example of that?

[Andrew Ferebee]: Fear runs his life. It's like something's missing. It's like he's hiding inside himself. For a man who doesn't have this problem, he's like, "Alright, let's go on to the next topic," but for someone who feels this, someone who is like, "That's me," he's connecting to this right now. It's a guy who's grown up physically yet, hasn't grown up emotionally and he's still holding on to things from the past that are running his life. Ultimately, it's fear.

[Angel Donovan]: Yeah and I guess to explain this to guys more, like guys think about anxiety when they're going up talking to a girl or maybe they've got anxiety because, they're not getting a text back from a girl. A lot of those things, I think some guys don't associate. Fear can be a little bit of an abstract word sometimes. So in terms of the ongoing feelings, it can be a lot of things, right? How would you describe it?

[Andrew Ferebee]: If you're talking about approach-anxiety, I believe that no one really gets rid of that. I still have it. Like, I approach girls all the time and I still have the fear but, I still walk into the fear. I'm courageous and I walk into the fear acknowledging that there's fear and I'm able to turn that fear into excitement. So it's all an approach-anxiety. An example of this could be (if we're going to use it just in like a worldly context), a guy who hasn't taken responsibility for his life and someone who is letting others dictate his life and what he's going to do.

[Angel Donovan]: That's a good example because often, it's fear that holds us back from leading which it sounds like you're referring to there, basically the fear of rejection. So whenever you're thinking, "They're not going to go with the flow if I take the lead on that. She's not going to go with the flow if I take the lead on that."

[Andrew Ferebee]: Yes.

[Angel Donovan]: Great. So another area I wanted to get into was purpose because, you talk about this a bit and obviously, it's something that's become a bit of a trend these days, right? You have to have your purpose as a man. Even in the business world, where we're like, you have to have your purpose and that's going to make you a great entrepreneur. How would you explain it from your perspective? Finding your purpose as a man, why is it important to be attractive, to be attractive to women?

[Andrew Ferebee]: So from a dating standpoint, what it does is it removes that neediness. It removes clinginess. It removes jealousy. A man with a purpose is not trying to attach on to others because, he already has his thing. He's on a mission moving forward in life and it's his path that he's taking and he's not letting external things run his life. He's not seeking external validation from others because, he already has it.

If men removed the neediness, of needing the girl, of needing this woman... The clinginess of once he has her he's always around her, always texting, always calling her, trying to be with her. The jealousy of when they're not together and yet, he still feels this pain, this suffering when they're not together and that if she's with someone else or "What she is going? Oh my gosh! Oh my gosh!" and it's running his life. Instead, it's like no. He has his own purpose. Like he has his own thing that he's moving towards.

It doesn't have to be this grand like purpose. He's going like save all of this country. It doesn't have to be this grand thing. I mean, your purpose is yours. It doesn't have to be, "I'm going to build a billion-dollar company. I'm going to save Africa." It doesn't have to be this grand thing. It's whatever it is to you. It speaks to you but, having something that you're committed to removes the neediness. It removes the clinginess and that whole jealousy aspect and those are three things, three killers of attraction for women and men.

[Angel Donovan]: Great. It sounds like it's the number one priority in your life. You could also talk about like that it's the thing you think about the most.

[Andrew Ferebee]: Absolutely. It's your thing. It's the thing that you just lose track of time when you're doing it. You love this thing.

[Angel Donovan]: Yeah and I think guys can relate to it like, say you're out with a girl and when you're being really needy then, you're constantly thinking about what she's thinking about, concerned about what she's thinking about. Whereas when you have a purpose, you may well get distracted by that. Like, you get a thought about your business or whatever it is that is really important to you in your life while you're out with the girl and that would actually be a more normal situation. What do you think about that?

[Andrew Ferebee]: Yeah, it's like she's not on the pedestal. It's your mission is on the pedestal and that's what you're going after and she wants that. She's like, "That's attractive." She can feel that and of course, women at some times in a relationship will want to be one the pedestal but ultimately in the long-term, it's not like they want to be the one that you're chasing all the time and you need them, you're clingy and you're getting jealous. Having something else that you have going on in your life that is very important to you and you're moving in that direction.

It's not just this thing you talk about. That could be even more unattractive if you have a purpose but, you don't actually do anything with it and you just talk about it. I mean, it's like she can't trust you in that situation because, you love this thing so much but, you can't do it. There's a lack of trust there. Where there's no trust, there's no relationship.

So, it does help so much and it's not like, "Damn, I don't have a purpose. I need to get a purpose so I can be attractive." It's like really, really spend time on this because, it's your life and you said like a guy's in business or talking about having a purpose and if it's important and it's because, a man who is following his purpose and is aligned with the business that he's in, he's going to be able to out work and work harder and he's going to be able to do things that the other guy who's running on a pay check, who's running by his salary like that's what's fueling his work can't do. So, that's how it does connect with business there and success because, you're on your path. This is your thing and you're not even so much working as you are just moving forward in your life.

[Angel Donovan]: Yeah, it makes you stronger. It makes you more certain about what you're doing and I think guys can see when you're stronger, your purpose makes you stronger then, it's going to make you more attractive to women as well.

[Andrew Ferebee]: Yeah, absolutely, absolutely when... yeah. Get rid of the neediness. Get rid of the clinginess. Get rid of the jealousy and bring on more of these attractive qualities and you'll start to see more women moving in your direction as you take action, of course.

[Angel Donovan]: Yeah. So, I remember when I first tried to figure out my purpose and this was relatively late because, I'd been a management. I thought that what I was supposed... you know, going to have fun at but, it turned out that wasn't really what I thought was really important to me and I did... have you ever heard of Steve Pavlina?

[Andrew Ferebee]: Yeah.

[Angel Donovan]: Right? So, he had this blog post about finding your life's purpose. I don't know if you ever saw that. It was many, many years ago and I tried it and it actually kind of worked for me. It was just writing things down on a piece of paper kind of brain storming but, just letting it flow and flow and flow and just keep doing it for as long as it took until you felt some kind of an emotion about it. Did you ever see that before?

[Andrew Ferebee]: Yeah. It's a good process to really just kind of self-reflect and write down what is it, asking yourself critical questions. Like, "What is it that makes you come alive? What makes you lose track of time? If money was no object in the world, what would you do?" All really powerful questions and it's good to have that reflection and that's kind of like doing your own homework and kind of self-reflection on yourself. Well ultimately, how do you find your purpose? Where are some steps to take there?

Well, it's very simple where you just put down the books, put down books on how to find your purpose, stop searching for content. After you've read enough, you've read enough. Stop consuming content and start going out into the world and trying new things. It's not going to hit you but, what will happen is you will find yourself completely immersed into something where time doesn't matter and years will actually go on and on before you've even realized that you've discovered your purpose.

You've just been so immersed into this thing that it's consumed you. It's taken over your life. You love it. It's become... you're addicted to it. It's become a part of your life and that's more so the process of going out into the world and trying new things. If you're trying to figure out your purpose, you don't know. You don't know. Maybe it's because you just haven't enough experiences in your life. Like, you're looking into your library of experiences and it's an empty book shelf. You've got to fill it up with new experiences which actually is a positive thing because, now you have to force yourself to go out into the world and experience the beauty of life and what makes life exciting is trying new things and putting yourself out there.

Maybe that consists of travel. Maybe that consists of trying a new job. Maybe that consists of volunteering. Maybe that consists of just looking on http://www.MeetUp.com and just trying like 20 different meetup groups of hiking, of art, of whatever really just peeks your interests.

[Angel Donovan]: That's a great point because, it's pretty difficult I think when guys are told, "Find your purpose." It's quite challenging for them. So, I like that practical approach to it. Just get out there and experiment with stuff. Meet up groups, that's a great way to get some ideas and get started. Have you got any other things that you recommend to guys?

[Andrew Ferebee]: Yeah, mainly just do this kind of on your own. Don't go to these events or go out and like with someone as it may impact your... you may just be following that person. You might be clouding your vision of what really speaks to you and to really spend some time with yourself on this and find something for you and maybe that's solo so that you can have a clear focus on what really speaks to you.

[Angel Donovan]: That's an important point because, often we let our friends and what they're doing, what we are currently are currently in life hold us back just because... I can give you an example. When I was 21, I wanted to learn Spanish and I wanted to learn Mexican Spanish for some reason. I guess it was because I was on the other side of the world. When I got my first pay check, I took off to Mexico to stay with a family and learn and I thought about like... I asked some friends and stuff and they weren't that interested and I could have waited for years basically, if I'd waited for some of my friends but, just going out there on your own and I guess, the first time you do it, it doesn't seem like a great idea. Like, "Oh damn, I'm going to go across... like traveling and stuff on my own, it's not as fun as it would be with friends," but actually, it turns out more fun that way.

[Andrew Ferebee]: Yeah, absolutely.

[Angel Donovan]: Cool, excellent. Okay, let's check out the social-life aspect because, I think that's another part. Why do you feel that a good social life is important to your mindset?

[Andrew Ferebee]: Yeah and some of this stuff, it might sound like I'm repeating myself but, like these core elements need to be removed. Like, so simple but, I repeat myself in my own book but, having a good social life, it removes the neediness and the clinginess and the jealousy because, you have your own and you're not depending on one woman to create your social life with. You're not dependent on her or her friends or her family. You have your own people that make you happy and you're already happy. She is entering your life and wants to be a part of it versus you coming in and kind of taking over her life and trying to be everywhere within her life.

Like, come Friday, Saturday night, you have things going on and she gets to come along for the ride and of course, go into her world as well and intertwine the worlds but, to at least bring something to the table. Your have friends. You have things that you're doing. You have hobbies that you're committed to. You're not just looking for a girl and once you find a girl, you just like want everywhere. You're just all over the place with her. It's about removing that neediness, that clinginess and that jealousy.

[Angel Donovan]: What do you think drives the impact a good social life has? So what I mean is kind of break it down a little bit more. When we've got a good social life around us, I feel like it's doing a number of things. It's taking up some of our time. It's similar to our purpose actually, I think. They're kind of two things that you can think about like next to each other.

It's also giving you something that all humans need, right? They need social contact. They need interaction with other humans. One of my thoughts is like if you're sitting at home all the time and you don't a very populated social life let's see... like, compared to the average, you're having less human touch, like interaction, experience. So, you're kind of going in a deficit and then, whenever you talk to a girl, you're going to feel... that's going to feel like more neediness as you put it. You're going to be less confident and you're going to need more just because, you haven't got a normal level of social interaction.

[Andrew Ferebee]: Yeah, absolutely. I think often times we think like, "Social life, oh my gosh? It's reflecting back on college where you just have all these friends and there's people everywhere. You're walking on the corner. You just know everyone." It doesn't need to be like that at all. That's more like a younger childish social life. It's just not realistic as an adult but ultimately, really just like three good friends is a lot.

Not just like acquaintances like, "Oh, I know their name and like I know what he does and sometimes we go out and have a beer," but three solid friends, really good friends that you could count on, almost like brothers. That's enough, even just like two friends. Like it doesn't need to be this wild, crazy shit, like just this huge army of guys that you're just like this social suave guy. Like just three solid friends, honestly that would just make most guys extremely happy right there. Just always having something to do, having good conversations, getting invited to birthdays and celebrations and events and being out there.

I think having that context of what a good social life is, tends to reduce a lot of that pressure of like, "Oh, now you need purpose. You need a social life." It's like, "No." Just having a few good companions, a few good male friends is enough to get rid of this neediness, this clinginess, this jealousy that will often persist in men if they don't have a social life on to women.

[Angel Donovan]: That's a great point and 80/20 because, it's often we're like... when people are talking about social life, you're right. They're like talking about the best-case scenario for the really social PR promoted guy or whatever it is but yeah. You bring it down, make it a lot simpler. I think that's a lot more accessible for guys. Great points there.

[Andrew Ferebee]: Yeah to be honest, it's not even realistic. You really can't have like 20 friends. It's not even real. Those aren't even real friends. Like a guy who may appear that way, he probably still only has like two or three good friends.

[Angel Donovan]: Yeah, that's a good point. Yeah.

[Andrew Ferebee]: You can't. Like a human can't. Unless it's your full-time job, just like calling people and checking in on them but like, relationships are hard. A really strong good male friend, it's almost like you're dating him. It's like, you can't just like let things flow. You have to be there for him. You're going to check. You're going to hang out. It's like you're dating. You're going out a lot. You're spending time, good quality time. You're having real conversations to really break into that but, no one has 20 just deep core solid friendships, Man. It's too much work.

[Angel Donovan]: Excellent yeah, that's a great point. Okay so, masculine polarity is another thing you brought up in your book and it's something we've brought up, talked about in several interviews on here as well. What's it look like from your perspective?

[Andrew Ferebee]: It is what it is. I don't know if it's going sound the same. I mean....

[Angel Donovan]: I mean; I always find people have subtle differences in the way they look at it or the way they like to communicate it. So, we're just interested in yours.

[Andrew Ferebee]: Okay well, it's doing. It's action. Masculine polarity, it's go-getting. It's goal seeking. It's strength. It's freedom. It's respect. Those are element of masculine polarity. I mean, it is what it is in that case but also, not to confuse but, we also have feminine polarity. It's not just because we're a man, we have masculine polarity. That's it. We also... it's the yin and the yang. We also have feminine polarity and both equality powerful and both are equally necessary in a stable life.

So obviously, a feminine polarity is more of like acceptance, receiving, giving but, the problem here and why this is brought up is that men are often lacking masculine polarity that doing, the action, the go-getting, the goal seeking, the strength, the freedom and they're leaning or clinging on to the feminine polarity or it's just even clear what polarity they're in. It's like they're stagnant. It's like they're a zombie.

Often times, will ask me like, "I've read book. I've read this guy's book. I listen to all these pod cast. I bought these courses. I'm still single," and they're upset. Often times it's like, "Well Man, you're lacking... you have no energy. There's nothing..." It's like it's dull. It's like he's dead inside. It's like, "There's nothing there." It's like he's a zombie. There's just nothing going on there. He's trying to get laid.

So, just remove that, Man. Have more energy. Have more lust for life and have the purpose of like, "I'm moving in this direction whatever it is." Be on a path moving in a direction even if the purpose is for now it's just like, "I'm going to become the best version of myself. I want to improve my life." How will that impact all of your actions if you're waking up every day and saying that to yourself and your life is dictated by constant personal development and getting results in your life? But, to have something that you're doing and to be able to just go get.

Masculine polarity, I mean an easy way to think of it is kind of like that hunter, he's going after what he wants. I think of a man back in the day of running super fast chasing some crazy mountain lion with a spear just go-getting and he's with a tribe. He's doing. He's not just sitting, waiting for things to happen. He's out there in the world...

[Angel Donovan]: It sounds like, if a guy starts finding his purpose and going after that with some of the advice we were talking about earlier, he would automatically start moving more toward his masculine polarity?

[Andrew Ferebee]: Yeah, it would drive him into action and not to confuse masculinity with like 300, like the Spartans and I do agree, that is masculine. We can associate that but, Beethoven is equally as masculine as a Navy Seal because, he's still doing. He's still taking action. He's still go-getting. He's still has goals. He's still going after what it is that he wants in his life. So, it's not the physical. It's more of what he's doing.

[Angel Donovan]: Absolutely, because there's a fair number of guys who obviously, they're the typical body-builder. You talk about who isn't getting a lot of success with women and he's working on his insecurities through his physical size, right? So, we often talk about that stereotype of kind of guy and in that situation, you can be having this great physical masculine physique but, it's not inside you, right? You're doing it for the wrong reasons.

[Andrew Ferebee]: Absolutely, there's so much you can learn from body building but, it's healthy too. Definitely, I work out. I lift heavy weights, about to hit the gym actually later today but, if someone's like an artist or someone is more intellectually inclined or they're a teacher or whatever it is and they just don't feel like, "Oh, I'm not that masculine," but you are because, you're doing it. You're waking up every day. You're improving. You have goal. You're going after them. You're moving towards what you want. It is equally as masculine but, often we portray it as like, "You've got to be this man like James Bond or Jason Born or something."

[Angel Donovan]: I mean, it's good to see like some films now are getting more intellectual and stuff and you can see strong masculine figures who aren't warriors all the time too. So, I think there are some role models there.

Okay so, your show talks about a wide range of themes related to men's development, right? You cover all sorts of areas. Which of these do you feel that men should prioritize because, they have some kind of an effect on his dating, sex, relationship's life, right? So, if he's like most concerned about that, to take your point, it's the biggest pain-point right now. Then, which of these do you think are most relevant in directly to his life?

[Andrew Ferebee]: What is that of things that I talk about and like the men's development world that would impact a man's dating life the most?

[Angel Donovan]: Yeah and you feel like you'd prioritize those over say others. Say you got to list ten, (I don't know many you feel you have) which ones would you prioritize because, you think basically, they could be subtly undermining the more focused efforts he's taking.

[Andrew Ferebee]: Yeah, the cornerstone of my book is about removing clinginess and neediness. I think if most guys just had that down, they themselves would just be enough to be able to go out and meet these women. So having a purpose for me and moving towards that while being able to take action (taking action meaning going after the women you want) would make all the difference. So, some guys may think that, "Oh, I have purpose. How is that going to... are the girls going to just come? Are they just going to know I'm on my purpose?Ó It's like, "No, you do that for yourself. You do that because it's for you. Like, that's your thing and it takes a woman off the pedestal but, you still have go out and approach girls."

You still have to ask them out. You still have to go on the dates. You still have to take them back. So, nothing changes there but, having a purpose and moving towards that in your life, it will just make you a happier man. You're in alignment to what you value most in your life and you're moving towards that every day. That's powerful. It's not like women can just look at you and see it but, it may not even be on that first interaction but, once they start getting to know you, it really locks them in. It really keeps them engaged in the relationship. You moving towards what you want, it's attractive. There's no woman who's going to say that's unattractive. Like, "Oh Man, a guy who's going after he wants in life and he's in alignment and he loves this thing and he's actually moving towards it and he's building and he's passionate when he talks about it, it's attractive."

In fact in my experience of dating... you know, I'm dating multiple girls right now, each one of them will view me as like, "Wow." I get texts from these girls. They'll tell me. In person, we'll talk about it but, it motivates them to find their purpose, gets them on track. I could be dating girls who are massive partiers. They're just always going out and they start dating me and they're like, "Man, ever since I started dating you, I'm really starting to rethink what I'm doing and I feel like I should really start pushing towards what I want to do in my life."

[Angel Donovan]: That's a really important point. I find that happens with all my friends and it's a huge part of the value she gets from the relationship. It's just girls that it creates a much stronger connection because, they're learning things from you that are really contributing to their lives and sometimes, as you said, they build part of their new life around that. I think a lot of us have seen that a lot of girls have transformed and got a lot out it.

I remember one of my buddies in Shanghai, we were close, we used to hang out. We used to go and pick up girls a lot together. His girlfriend, we met her and she was a dance instructor for some company. After she had been dating him for about six months, she sprung out, started her own and she's got the biggest dance company. She does all these corporate events. She does all the classes in the whole of Shanghai now. It's pretty incredible.

[Andrew Ferebee]: Yeah and think about moving forward in the future. Like if they stay together or not, she's going to reflect on that man in such a different way. It's like, "That was a man that I met or am still with who changed my life."

[Angel Donovan]: Absolutely and it's always like a win-win situations, all relationships, right? Guys and guys, girls and girls, guys and girls, it's the same basis. If it's not a win-win equation, you're learning from each other, you're not growing from each other then eventually, there's going to be some negatives involved but, when there's a lot of win-win involved, it just makes a lot more sense.

So, you do not need the girl but, you want her. I see what you mean. I think it's pretty important. What does it mean for you?

[Andrew Ferebee]: I like this quote a lot and I share this a lot, it's in the book a lot and it's shows with clients. It's, "It just means that you acknowledge the woman. You acknowledge the beauty of the woman, that you're attracted to her but, you're not going to chase one woman at the expense of yourself." Like, you're going to put her on a pedestal but, you do acknowledge that she's beautiful. So, it's coming. It's an abundance mindset kind of quote there.

It's not like, "Oh, I don't want the girl. I'm on purpose." It's like, "No, there's a girl there. I see her. She's attractive. I'll go talk to her," versus like, "Holy shit a hot girl! I need to go talk to her. What do I do? What I say?" It's just more mature kind of adult approach and again, it takes off neediness, clinginess and that jealousy aspect because, you're going to be okay without her. So, it's abundance. That's what it comes down to is having that abundance.

Here's one thing too. This is something like... so obviously, we live in a world. There's like seven billion so, cut that in half. About three to three and half billion women and then, consider too, how many women of those have you been with? For some guys, five, ten, 20, 40, 50, even if you're massive player, 100. There's just such an abundance of woman that there's no reason to chase one. Of course, go after the one but, you don't need to chase her at the expense of yourself.

[Angel Donovan]: So, it's being okay with walking away.

[Andrew Ferebee]: Yeah, it's like freedom from outcome. It's being okay if it doesn't work out but, you're still going to go and do it. You're still going to approach her but, you're okay if, she has a boyfriend. You're okay if she rejects you but, having this mentality, it's not this aggressive approach and she can... like, in order for a woman to really feel attracted to a man, especially off a cold approach, she needs to first feel safe. She needs first feel safe, like she's not in danger. When a girl has her defense mechanisms up, there's no way. She's not going to feel attracted. She's like more concerned about her safety. This approach just really releases some of that tension that a woman might feel with a man who's aggressively trying to approach and it makes a much enjoyable experience for both man and the woman.

[Angel Donovan]: You know; you're making me think of this book called The Obstacle is the Way.

[Andrew Ferebee]: Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, Ryan Holiday?

[Angel Donovan]: Yeah because, that's all about having obstacles in your way and not being able to get something you want and often... I think you've had Ryan on your show, right to talk about it specifically? It's a great book I recommend to a lot of people just from mindsets because, if you think about it, it kind of relates to... in the start up world, we hear a lot about pivoting. There's not just one way to getting to whatever your goal is and it's kind of the same, in terms of women. It's like this one girl is not the only girl that you're going to come across that you're going like. You can always pivot or you can always like, "Okay, it didn't work out. Obstacle is the way. I'll just go another way and I'll meet another girl and she'll be as attractive and high quality."

[Andrew Ferebee]: Yeah absolutely.

[Angel Donovan]: What would be... there's a quick question out there, have you got any favorite books of all time, the top two or something?

[Andrew Ferebee]: That book, Ryan Holiday's Obstacles is the Way, I recommend that. I don't know if it's my all-time favorite but, that is a book I would recommend to guys. Just knowing that the obstacles, like the problem in front of you is the path, going through the path instead of running away. There's a book called Fearless by Adam Brown. It's about a Navy Seal. I highly recommend that book. Reading that, it's going to really show you what this man is capable of doing. So, I highly recommend Fearless: The Adam Brown Story. I think it's being made into a movie right which, I'm excited for.

Another book is Courage: The Joy of Living Dangerously which I highly recommend because, we need as men more courage to be able to work into what scares us. Too often we walk by what we know we need to do and it prevents us from getting the results that we want in life. So, that's a really good book and that's by an Indian philosopher called Osho and it's an easy read even though it sounds like it's going to be confusing. I'd recommend those books.

[Angel Donovan]: Thanks Man. I'm sure those are great references given all the ground you've covered. I haven't heard those last two either so, I'll go look them up myself as well. Okay so, rounding off the interview, a few fire questions here. Where is the best place for people to connect with you?

[Andrew Ferebee]: Yeah, just go to http://www.KnowledgeForMen.com. Just spell it out: Knowledge for Men.com and if anyone wants to reach out, just go to the contact page. It goes directly to my email. Obviously, the podcast is there, the blog is there and all the programs I do are there. The book is there as well. The Dating Playbook for Men.

[Angel Donovan]: Great, great thanks. Who besides yourself would you recommend for high quality advice, more so in the dating, sex, relationships area?

[Andrew Ferebee]: Let me think... I don't even know who I follow anymore. It's just gotten to a point where I just have my own stuff but, if I look back, there was a time when I really liked David Wygant. I thought he was really... he's just really about being authentic and being real. That's just such an important aspect of just destroying someone's game, just being you and being real. If you're tired when you go out, you don't need to hide that. You can just go out and tell a girl you're tired and that can be funny. Really being real and open and authentic in telling girls what you want in a relationship and really stripping down and being naked. There was a period in my life where I was consuming a lot of his stuff and it was different from what I was reading from other guys which was more like formulaic. Like, "If she does this then, do this," kind of thing.

[Angel Donovan]: He's got great energy, very, very strong energy.

[Andrew Ferebee]: Yeah, he does.

[Angel Donovan]: He's a lot older than us as well and he's still got that energy.

[Andrew Ferebee]: And he's still like doing boot camps.

[Angel Donovan]: I know! He's actually incredible.

[Andrew Ferebee]: I was like, "Damn, that's awesome!" I saw him in Santa Monica.

[Angel Donovan]: Cool so, this is a question we ask everyone. What top three recommendations would you give to guys if they're starting from scratch and they want to improve their dating life as fast as possible?

[Andrew Ferebee]: Yeah, well I have one resource. Go out and whether it's my book, Dating Playbook for Men or go out and buy a book and then, that's number one. So, get educated.

Number two is go get someone to hold you accountable with who you can do this with. So, go get a wingman so, it's fun for you and start setting a routine or a system where you guys are going out consistently whether it's during the day or the night. Everyone right there will say, "Oh, I don't have time. I'm busy. There's no time," but everybody that I work with, I'll go through their schedule. I'll be like, "Alright, tell me your schedule by the hour. What's it look like?" and we'll end up finding that he's wasting so much time with television, with Netflix, with social media, browsing Facebook and just skipping out time that he could be going out.

Number three would be to... when you go out, come home and just reflect always at the end of the night and just journal at the end of every night. Don't do it after an approach. Like, "Oh damn! What happened here?" and you're all in your head but, just go out and have an awesome. Go out and have an epic time with your wingman or your friend, whatever it is and honestly, if I could go back and be... when I first started going out. When was this? Like 20 or 21 and do that all over again, it's been almost eight years or so. It was one of the most fun times of my life, really just going out there and just pushing the boundaries of what you can do in social interactions with women and taking girls home and just like all this fun stuff, traveling and really just looking at it like the journey but, there's so much joy in the journey.

Even if you're older, you can still do it. You just going to have to adapt to things that are more relevant to the women that you want. So, good places for that would be getting involved in different social clubs. You can start off on going to http://www.Meetup.com in finding some places to go out too but ultimately yeah, just go out and then when you get home, journal about what you did well and then, journal about what I could work on.

[Angel Donovan]: That's a great point. I love journaling and it's something that I've kept up over the years. Now and again, I've dropped it for a while and then, I've restarted, maybe not as intensive as it was in the first years. Are you still journaling today?

[Andrew Ferebee]: Not so much.

[Angel Donovan]: Obviously maybe not for dating but, for just journaling in general?

[Andrew Ferebee]: Yeah, I'm not journaling after... for dating to be honest but, just journaling in general and maybe there will be some dating that happens in there but, I used to only just specifically a notebook and it was just about women I dated and I would talk about experiences and what went well and what didn't work out well and when you record... this is like proven scientifically. Whatever you record and monitor, you improve on drastically. Hands down in a business, if you set KPIs... maybe in your business, it's like, "Oh, how many emails did we get this month." If you monitor that, you will improve. You will start taking measures everyday to start moving in that direction to increase. So whatever KPI you set, you will improve but, yeah I just journal about life now but, I still journal.

[Angel Donovan]: Yeah, me too. I find it's a really good feedback. When you write something down, it also just makes it a lot clearer. You can have all of these ideas in your head but, when you start writing it down, often it will like bring a lot of clarity to it. I don't know why it works but, it just works when you put it down on paper like that. So, I like it for that and it's a great tool to learn. It just starts from dating potentially but then, as you said, it's just something, a good habit to keep in life in general.

[Andrew Ferebee]: Yeah, The Dating Playbook for Men is my journal, by the way. Obviously, I wrote it into a book but, people ask me, "How did you write a book so quick?" I was like, "Well, the book was already written. It was my journals. I just had to go through it and pull out the key lessons from each of these days." So, it's all based on experience and interactions that I had and what I discovered and so, I'd break down in a seven-step system and make it really easy to read but, it is my journal.

[Angel Donovan]: That's a great point. It's another good reason to have a journal. You might want to use it one day for that. Well, thanks Andrew so much for being on the show. I enjoyed it.

[Andrew Ferebee]: Alright. It's been my pleasure. I've wanted to be on the show for a while. Thank you so much. I'm glad that we connected Angel.